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Real M.E.N. don't hurt women!

An interview with Peter Markus of M.E.N.
Men Evolving Nonviolently

by Diane Rae Schulz

Sebastopol, California
September, 1999

 

I first heard Peter Markus speak at Sonoma State University in a Women's Studies class, and wanted to know more about his involvement with an all male group of facilitators and clients called M.E.N., Men Evolving Nonviolently. In particular I remembered his opening statement about his group. "We are drawn together out of the belief that our culture is One Large Patriarchy that encourages men to control their partners. By working on our own stuff, we become aware of how it all works."

He went on to say that their method of operation is behavior modification, not merely counseling. "We provide our clients with a safe space where they can really talk, something men are not used to having." Normally what many men do together consists of sports and drinking for the most part.

One term he explained was "The Man Box". I was thrilled to hear this gentle voiced man addressing the problem of male violence with an understanding of where it originates. So I got ahold of him and arranged for an interview. I visited with him and his wife, Maryanne, at their lovely home one hot afternoon in September.

AWe: I remember your statement that "Our culture is one large patriarchy, which encourages men to control women." Can you expand on that please?

Peter: Yes, there is actually nowhere that the system doesn't feed itself: we are bombarded from birth with conditioning, in the home, by parents, in the schoolyard, not to speak of all the forms of media. We are told that we're different. Boys don't cry and girls don't count. Anybody who questions this way of thinking, these assumptions about difference, are very threatening. And very threatened in return. I think of JFK and his family when I was a teenager. As his casket was being carried by his family, John Jr. didn't shed a tear, just "took it like a man" and saluted; while his sister Caroline hid in her mother's skirt.

AWe: What brought you to this understanding of our culture?

Peter: I've had these attitudes forever, but just about myself. I didn't know about "The Man Box", didn't see the Big Picture. There was no sudden realization, no particular event or person who influenced me. I just didn't do well in the man box. I wasn't competitive, didn't care for sports or bars. I just felt different. I started to get involved with men's groups, trying to connect to my feelings. But it wasn't until I moved up here seven years ago that I got involved with M.E.N.

AWe: So did you help form the group?

Peter: No, M.E.N. has been around for 18 years. Actually I was having some work done on our house and the contractor, Tom, was a 15-year M.E.N member. I had asked him if there were any men's groups I could join because I was new to the area and he told me all about it. At first I wasn't sure because of the violence issue, something I hadn't dealt with before. I had a fear of men who were violent with their wives. But most of it sounded wonderful. It is a big commitment because it's all volunteered time. Also we look at our own behavior because we're linked in a task, doing things in a non competitive way to serve and change the community.

AWe: Can you explain the process by which the men that you work with seek to overcome their patriarchal socialization, their "how to be a man" directions as enforced by our culture?

Peter: It works on two levels. First there's Us, the collective of facilitators. We don't have a hierarchy, we work by total consensus. There are about 20 active members. We do our service, such as facilitating and answering the Hot Line, but we also look at our own violence. As men we're sometimes abusive to each other. We have a once a month support group where we can explore personal issues. The second level is Them, the clients. Something has brought them to us, some sort of crisis, like their partner is throwing them out, or asking for a divorce. Or they simply realize that they can't continue with their violence against their partner. It is a voluntary group. There are other groups that are for men assigned by the court to work on their abuse, but our group is different in that the men want to be there.

AWe: So how does the actual process work?

Peter: Step one is what we call STV, Stop the Violence. This last for 3 months. The men keep a journal of their violence, learn how to take a "clean" time out when they are angry. We come together for 2 hours once a week and talk. The purpose is to keep yourself safe. Don't get yourself in a state where you'll go off and take out the anger on your partner. Learn to take long walks, call the Hot Line and have someone talk you through the anger. It's like pulling teeth sometimes to break through the denial our clients bring to the group. The facilitators are setting the culture with the intention that the men will follow. Only one in ten men sticks with it, gets it. But even those who don't finish remember and come back when they're ready. If they get through the first 3 months and have stopped the violent activity, then they are ready for Step two, Skill Building. Here's where I work, teaching them skills to use in their relationship with their partner and other people. We address many topics, such as communication skills and stress reduction, and use tools like the "control wheel" vs. the "equality wheel." The groups vary from 10-15 in size. This stage last 20 weeks. About a third of the men join us as facilitators after they finish the program. They are reaching into themselves, moving into responsibility for their actions, they start carrying the flag, modeling their lives on the culture we've established. Compassion emerges.

AWe: So you obviously find your method effective?

Peter: Yes, and what I've come to understand is that we're unique. We're not on a box looking down on our clients. We're peers instead. We don't just say it, we DO it ourselves. It fits my own philosophy - that we're all the same, all equal. Men are very isolated emotionally. We encourage them to communicate, not always be in competition. We're also unique in that we're volunteers. We pay for our expenses by collecting the equivalent of one hour's pay from each client. Our main expense is the telephone, especially the Hot Line, and photocopying. Whatever is left over we give away to the YWCA Women's Shelter, and other organizations performing services related to domestic violence.

AWe: Can you explain The Man Box a bit more?

Peter: We actually draw a picture of a box and ask the men to fill it with words and phrases that describe "being a man". Like Mr. Fixit, the man with the money, get lots of sex but don't have feelings, control women. It's exhausting "being a man", you never have any peace. If you resist "being a man" you're called a pussy, a wimp, a woman. When the box is filled with the many tasks of "being a man", we notice their anger coming up. They cry, some are revolted at the trap of being in the Man Box without being conscious of ever entering it.

AWe: This sounds like such a good method. Have you done any work with boys?

Peter: We do some outreach to high schools. Boys at that age are so concerned with conforming and being part of the scene that it's hard to reach them. It's a very difficult time for boys to look at their behavior.

Maryanne: As a former middle school teacher, I've been concerned that nobody is working with boys. I know very well how hard it is. They're working so hard to fill the shoes that patriarchy serves to them.

AWe: Is there a way that women contribute to this process?

Peter: Well, yes, these men do have partners who are willing to be victims. They are "co-ing" this behavior. We don't deal with the partner's behavior though, just the man's. There are groups for the partners of our clients at Chrysalis Counseling Center, basically doing the same thing: behavior modification, showing women that it's not good for tyrants to get their way. If she allows the man to become a tyrant then she's just playing her part, the one she also was conditioned into by our culture.

AWe: Do you have anything to offer as a vision of the future?

Peter: Well, I see the sacredness of humanity, that's how I envision God. I know that we need to learn to struggle together as people, not as men and women separately. The current struggle about KPFA radio is a good example of men and women working together for a community truth, not playing a gender game. Our Statement of Unity says: "The ability to change lies with men." That's where we start.

AWe: Thanks so much for your time. You'll be seeing your interview on the Web by our winter issue.

Peter gave me a brochure published by M.E.N. that is available from ministers, police departments, and counselors. The opening page states:

• MEN believes that violent behavior is a learned way of solving problems.
• MEN believes that a richer, more satisfying and pleasurable life is possible when we unlearn this violence.
• MEN wants to work with you to promote personal growth and community change.
• MEN services are open to all men who recognize violence is a problem in their relationships and Want To Change.

MEN is looking for men and women to facilitate groups for the men you've been reading about in the interview.

To find out more about about getting involved with this unique group of men, please call 707-528-2MEN. The organization is located in Santa Rosa, California.

 

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